[Update: I wrote this in October of 2014. It’s been 3 years, and I’m still doing great. Thanks to all of you who continue to check up on me and wish me well!]
It was February 5th, my mother’s birthday and a month before the 20th anniversary of my becoming vegan. I was sitting in a breast surgeon’s office in a paper gown, cradling my biopsied breast and waiting. After about an hour and a half, my surgeon finally appeared, apologizing for keeping me waiting because the results had only just come in. He took a deep breath and said, “You don’t have cancer.” I thought, “I didn’t think I did.” Unfortunately, as I would later find out, we both were wrong.
He went on to explain that the biopsy found abnormal cells, officially called ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS), but often referred to as Stage 0 or pre-cancer. While I was still reeling from the word “carcinoma,” he explained that these cells might become cancer, so they had to be treated like cancer. My options were a lumpectomy with radiation or a mastectomy. I asked whether there was any chance that the pathology report could be wrong, and my doctor said no.
I was stunned. I left in a daze and went over to my husband’s office nearby to give him the news.
Three months before, a routine mammogram had spotted a place that looked different from my last mammogram. I was sent to the Breast Health Center for another mam and then an ultrasound to get a closer look. The spot was so small and deep inside the breast that the ultrasound technician couldn’t find it at all, so I was given an appointment to return in three months. At that three month mammogram, the “spot” was clearly visible even to me as a glowing white circle in a sea of black and gray. A ultrasound-guided biopsy was scheduled for early the next week.
I’d had one of these biopsies four years ago, and that spot had turned out to be nothing but a harmless cyst, so I had been expecting the same results this time. Like most women, I didn’t think “The Big C” could happen to me. But because I was a vegan, I think I was even more positive that I couldn’t have cancer. After all, wasn’t I doing everything the vegan doctors tell us to do to protect ourselves from heart disease and cancer? Low-fat, lots of green and cruciferous vegetables and brightly colored fruit? No animal products? Moreover, no one in my family had ever had cancer. I naively thought I was immune.
So I didn’t really believe the pathology report, and I became even more skeptical when I read an article that said that DCIS is sometimes misdiagnosed. I decided to get a second opinion from one of the doctors mentioned in that article, a pathologist specializing in breast cancer in San Francisco. I had the hospital send him my biopsy slides, and a week later, I had a consultation with him on the phone. He was unable to confirm DCIS or rule out actual cancer because the radiologist who had performed the biopsy had noted that he had actually missed the “mass.” The biopsy needle had gone in front of the suspected tumor and gathered cells from there, just a few that looked abnormal. But until the actual mass was tested, the pathology specialist couldn’t rule out either DCIS or invasive cancer. He suggested I get another, more accurate, biopsy called a stereotactic biopsy, and I asked my doctor to schedule it.
I had high hopes that this second biopsy would show no DCIS and no cancer. Those hopes were shot down when my new medical oncologist called to give me the results: I had a small invasive cancer, Stage 1, that showed signs of being aggressive. She recommended surgery within the next 3-4 weeks. Just to be sure, I had the slides sent to the pathologist in San Francisco, who agreed with her diagnosis.
So I did what any logical person would do: I took a vacation. It was Spring Break, and my husband and I had planned a 5-day trip to take our high school junior (now senior) to visit 6 colleges in the Midwest. We wanted to do it while we could because we knew that after the surgery, I would need 6 ½ weeks of daily radiation treatments and might not be able to get away during the summer. The trip was a great distraction, but as soon as we got home, I made an appointment with the surgeon and scheduled my lumpectomy for the following week.
The surgery went perfectly. The surgeon removed the tumor and the area around it, as well as three lymph nodes which tested negative: the cancer had not spread to them. A week later, I returned to the surgeon’s office for more good news: The final pathology report showed that the “margins” or edges of the material he had removed were clean, meaning that all of the targeted cancer cells had probably been removed. The only worrisome thing to my husband and me were some figures in the report that seemed a little scary, particularly a “grade” of 3, meaning the cancer was aggressive. My surgeon was unconcerned, and my oncologist said that she would order a genetic test called Oncotype DX to more conclusively determine my chances of having the cancer recur.
A few weeks went by as I recovered from the surgery and waited for the results of the Oncotype test. I was expecting to start radiation soon when my medical oncologist called with the test results. They indicated that I was at a moderately high risk of recurrence. She was recommending that I have chemo.
This was the first time the other Big C word had been mentioned, and for some reason, “chemotherapy” scared me more than “cancer.” The oncologist explained that the type of chemo she was recommending was “well-tolerated” and without all of the serious long-term consequences of other treatments. I wasn’t convinced, and I began frantically researching the chemo itself and alternatives to it.
I was in a panic. On the one hand, I’ve always believed in fighting disease with nutrition and had always been opposed to taking any medication if it could be avoided. On the other hand, hadn’t I been doing just that for the past 20 years? My oncologist was telling me that chemo could reduce my risk of having the cancer recur and spread, that preventing it now would be much easier than trying to stop if it spread to my other organs. I went back and forth, one day deciding that chemo was just too dangerous and the next deciding that I didn’t want to take the risk of the cancer coming back. I was, frankly, a mess. I couldn’t sleep or eat for worrying about the chemo. I finally decided to get a second opinion from a highly recommended breast cancer oncologist at the University Medical Center.
My second opinion doctor came back with the same recommendation as the first: Have the chemo. She assured me that I was young (me!) and healthy and I could handle it. And it would cut my chance of recurrence in half.
My husband was very careful to stand back and let me make the decision for myself, but I knew that he hoped that I would have the chemo. And I was afraid that if I didn’t have it, I would be anxious for the rest of my life, afraid that I hadn’t done everything I possibly could to prevent a recurrence. I’d read the stories of people who had fought their cancer with diet and lifestyle choices, but those people weren’t already eating a whole foods, plant-based diet like I was.
So I decided to do the chemo, four rounds, three weeks apart. I read everything I could find about the treatments and armed myself with supplements that could help prevent side effects. And I found out my oncologist was right: the treatments, though no fun, we’re not as bad as I’d feared. My side effects were minimal, the most annoying being a bad taste in my mouth that would come and go and made it difficult to create new recipes.
Just after my initial diagnosis, I’d begun getting up at 5:30 every morning and walking with my husband and our dog. During chemo, and later radiation, I considered it a point of honor that I never missed a walk. On the weekends, my family and I tried to get out of the house and do a little hiking or local sightseeing so that I wouldn’t feel like the treatment was making me isolated. I ate lots of fruits and vegetables to support my immune system and was careful to avoid coming into contact with people who were sick, and I sailed through my summer of chemo without so much as a sniffle.
When chemo ended, I was determined to take a family vacation before I had to start radiation therapy, so at the beginning of August, we spent a week in the mountains of North Carolina and a few days in Nashville, seeing my newest niece for the first time (and, of course, my brother and sister-in-law).
I got back home and jumped right into daily radiation treatments–33 of them. Again, the treatments weren’t nearly as bad as I expected, but I was thrilled when they ended last week. I couldn’t wait to put all of this cancer stuff behind me.
I didn’t write about this while it was going on mainly because I was afraid that people would offer suggestions and criticisms of my decision to go through with chemo and radiation, and I just couldn’t risk the additional stress that would have put on me. So why am I telling you now? Even though this blog is recipe-oriented and not usually very personal, I wasn’t sure if I could go on writing it if I had to pretend like something this big hadn’t happened to me, something that has consumed the last eight months of my life and has changed the way I see myself and the way I think about diet, veganism, and health.
My first month post-diagnosis, before I had the specter of chemo to worry me, all I could think about was “why” and “how”: Why did I, a vegan who tries to eat healthy, get cancer when no one else in my Standard American Diet-eating family has ever had cancer? What had I done wrong? Had I eaten too few nuts? Too little cilantro? Not enough flax seeds? BPA? Soy?! I worried that I had caused my cancer by never being able to get to my goal weight and stay there, that I didn’t exercise consistently, that I had had only one child late in life and that I hadn’t breastfed her long enough.
I was blaming myself, and I had a lot of help from the Internet. I couldn’t visit Facebook without seeing posts about how eating X (broccoli, nuts, soy, orange) would help prevent cancer. Or people posting about their frustration that a friend or family member had breast cancer and refused to treat it by adopting a plant-based diet. If I, someone who had been eating all the right things (and not eating all the wrong ones), got the message that I was to blame for my cancer, how must other cancer patients feel, the ones who hadn’t been stuffing themselves with kale and mushrooms? Is there a way to promote a plant-based diet that doesn’t point the finger of blame, that doesn’t make grand promises of health, and that doesn’t make people like me feel so confident in the invincibility of our diets that we put off mammograms or other screening tests?
I don’t know. But for me, it’s been helpful to think of the vegan diet as promoting health, but not providing a “Get out of Disease Free” card. My friend Maria made me see that even if my diet didn’t prevent me from getting cancer, perhaps the cancer would have grown much more quickly if I hadn’t been vegan. Perhaps I wouldn’t have sailed through chemo without ever needing nausea meds if I hadn’t been nourishing my body with fruits and vegetables. Perhaps my immune system wouldn’t have stayed as strong as it did or my energy as high if I had been consuming animal products.
It’s also been helpful to me to remember my real reason for being vegan. Though I’ve followed a McDougall-type diet ever since I became vegan, my ultimate reason for becoming vegan was not to improve my own health but to decrease the suffering of animals. So if you’re reading this and worrying that I’m going to be another vegan blogger who goes back to eating animals for her own health, don’t. No diagnosis in the world could convince me to eat another animal or animal product.
As for my current health, I feel great, and I’m confident that I caught this cancer early and have done and am doing everything medically and nutritionally possible to make sure I never have to worry about it again. I’ve tweaked my diet to reduce or eliminate foods I don’t need (sugar, soy, wine, and coffee) and to increase those I wasn’t eating enough of before (broccoli sprouts, flax seeds, organics). I walk at least once and sometimes twice a day, and soon I’ll be starting a workout routine at the gym. I plan to lose the extra weight I’ve been carrying around, which is the biggest threat to my health.
I think the hardest struggle I’ve faced isn’t physical but emotional. My image of myself as a healthy person who never took pills and was confident her vegan diet would protect her from anything–that image took a pretty big hit. I’ve been worried about “coming out” as a vegan with cancer for fear that non-vegans would see it as proof that a vegan diet “doesn’t work” and that some vegans would skewer me for resorting to traditional medicine. In the end, I decided that I had to put my truth out there so that I can get past it and get back to blogging as usual. Next post, you can expect a recipe. Cancer isn’t on the menu.
Thank you to all my family, friends, and friends of friends who offered love and support. And to my church, the Unitarian-Universalist Church of Jackson, and my parents’ church, The First Presbyterian Church of Hammond, LA (love the shawl and cap, y’all!) And to Maria Maggi, Nava Atlas, Dreena Burton, and Stephanie Weaver–wise women all, whose words of advice and offers of support helped me more than they probably know.
Kim
October 9, 2014 at 4:14 pmThank you for sharing your journey. I am a 10 year breast cancer survivor and still want to know why anyone has to suffer through this disease.
By sharing your story, you have helped someone have the courage to face cancer head on. Keep fighting…it’s your treatment plan, no one elses.
Sam @ PancakeWarriors
October 9, 2014 at 4:15 pmI commend you on your bravery – this is not a fun topic to write about. And to have some sort of fear for coming out with your story shakes me to my core. Thank you for your bravery sharing with us. I hope everyday gets better than the last!
Cara O'Sullivan
October 9, 2014 at 4:15 pmWhat a brave and honest piece of writing, Susan. I hope no one criticizes your choice of treatment–this is such a highly individual and personal choice. You researched your options, you thought it through. I wish more people would rejoice in the choices we have before us–because so many of us might be faced with choices we think we’d never even consider. Maybe the Gerson therapy is the right choice for some; chemo is the right choice for others. I am grateful for it all.
Thank you again for your generosity in sharing the recipes you develop and for sharing this experience. I have no doubt it may help someone else in their tough choices.
Mary
October 9, 2014 at 4:16 pmAll blessings to you and yours. I appreciate your honesty and wisdom so much! A Friend You’ve Never Met
Kelsey
October 9, 2014 at 4:17 pmSo glad you decided to share your personal story. Very thoughtful and well written!! I’m sorry to hear of your recent health concerns, it sounds like it was difficult for you and your family on multiple levels. Glad to hear you’re feeling great and on the road to recovery. I just wanted to say thanks for sharing, I so admire your honesty, your dedication to your health and personal values. Bravo!!!!
Marcia
October 9, 2014 at 4:18 pmHello Susan,
Your story and courage have left me overwhelmed and finding it hard to think. As far as I’m concerned, you followed the right path. I, too, am not a fan of doctors and medicine, but who knows how we will react when / if it happens to us personally. Your family is undoubtedly extremely proud of you just as those of us who are graced by your incredible messages and recipes! Keep you head held high and wear a great big smile because you WON! Wishing you happiness and health, Marcia
lazysmurf
October 9, 2014 at 4:18 pmSusan, I just want to send you lots of love.
And then some more.
Tami@NutmegNotebook
October 9, 2014 at 4:19 pmThank you for your honesty in sharing your story. I wish you all the best as you move forward! I think it’s important that we don’t get that false sense of security from eating a plant based diet. Your story will no doubt make a difference in the lives of many.
Sharon Tenney
October 9, 2014 at 4:21 pmSusan, you are such a good role model. Sometimes “life just happens,” and there is no blame. Life and our bodies are still such a mystery.
I can imagine your shock, especially after all these long years of being so diligent with your diet — and all the wonderful recipes and ideas you have shared with us.
Don’t worry so much about having the perfect diet, the perfect weight, doing everything “right.” (I lost a bunch of weight to “help” my health and ended up having massive bone loss….when you have extra weight, you are actually carrying it and doing your own weight-bearing exercise each time you walk — I did not know that…there always seems to be a “catch” to many things.)
Love your family, your children, yourself. Don’t let anyone guilt-trip you.
Personally, I have loosened up on the vegan diet, and now incorporate other things – still eating well, but realized I needed more than what I was doing — every body is different.
Pat yourself on the back for the good jobs you have done in your life. Life is so many ups and downs. I often compare it to a heart monitor — if it isn’t going up and down, then you are flat-lining…:/ You have shown grace and character during this time.
God bless, and thank you for all you do for others.
michelle sims
October 9, 2014 at 4:21 pmBless you ! I’m so glad you’re okay. I love your posts !
Sally
October 9, 2014 at 4:23 pmSusan, I so appreciate your vulnerability and your transparency about your journey. I found you in just the past year, and have enjoyed your recipes and comments. With this post, though, your willingness to be real is what sets you apart from many, many others.
THIS is what people need – they want to know that we’re all in this together – and that the messiness of life includes happiness, sorrow, radiant health, and even cancer. Seeing the many posts of support only confirms that.
Thanks again for letting us “peek behind the curtain” of your life. You are loved and supported by many.
Jackie
October 9, 2014 at 4:25 pmHugs to you, and thank you for sharing your story so honestly. Who knows why anybody’s life unfolds as it does? All we can do is do our best with what we know and treat each other respectfully, just as you are doing.
Laurel
October 9, 2014 at 4:26 pmGod bless you and your bravery. I understand and applaud your decisions. I had a bilateral mastectomy this summer and am finally feeling humab again. Stay strong and never question your treatment decisions.
Cindy
October 9, 2014 at 4:26 pmI am so sorry you had to go through such a terrifying ordeal, but so glad that you’re going to be around for many many years to come.
Tracey Eakin
October 9, 2014 at 4:29 pmSusan, thank you for sharing such a personal story with us. I’ve followed you for years and recommend you to everyone. You are my number one go to person for recipes.
I am very happy to hear how well you fared during your treatment and how well everything has turned out for you. I will keep you in my prayers and am grateful that you will be continuing your blog and your recipes. You have a true gift.
Take care,
Tracey
Alina
October 9, 2014 at 4:30 pmSusan, thank you so much for sharing your story with us! I wish you a speedy and safe recovery with the hope that the Big C never bothers you or your family again. Your story proves that being vegan goes beyond having a ‘Get out of Disease free’ card – we do it out of compassion for all living beings, not just for our own benefit. Otherwise it would be too easy to stumble and fall off this course. Looking forward to seeing more of your wonderfully written posts!
trish
October 9, 2014 at 4:30 pmThank you so much for sharing! Vegans are not immune to cancer – no one is. The only guarantee in being a vegan is….that with every bite vegans reduce do not contribute to the horrific treatment of animals…..this IS a guarantee 🙂 Thanks again for your blog and sharing.
kathryn ward
October 9, 2014 at 4:31 pmThanks for sharing! Be well y back to the recipes as you feel like creating….most of all take good care of yourself!
dyannne
October 9, 2014 at 4:34 pmWell, Susan, riveting post. Thank you for your honesty and candor. I can understand your reluctance to share all this until it’s all over and respect your right to privacy! Personally, and I’ve come late to veganism, I don’t believe that it can give a 100 percent get out of disease free card even to someone who’s vegan from birth. There are other inducers, environmental and genetic for two. And as for those of us who aren’t even vegan from birth, cancers (I understand) take awhile to grow to the point of detection, so who knows how long you had that or what caused it to take hold. I think your friend, Maria, is right. Your healthy diet and lifestyle quite likely made the chemo and radiation effects a lot lighter than they would have been. I’m so glad it was found and that it’s been treated and you are making plans for even greater healthy living. I joined a gym recently and boy do I feel better for it. Pilates and yoga are so great and I’m even making some new friends there to work out and lunch with. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Alanna
October 9, 2014 at 4:35 pmAiiii .. Susan. I’m without words. Just know my thoughts and my heart are with you …
Brig
October 9, 2014 at 4:37 pmI think you are very brave. thank you for sharing your story. I’m so glad you are better.
Cheryl Litwack
October 9, 2014 at 4:40 pmGlad to hear you’re through your ordeal, Susan. I love your recipes and your voice. Keep blogging!
joanie springer
October 9, 2014 at 4:42 pmFirst off, what a brave posting, and how wise of you to share it all AFTER you had undergone your treatment. I’ve been a lurker, loving your recipes, never commenting, but this requires a comment. God bless you on your journey, so glad you had early diagnosis and loads of support. And thank you….for your courage and sharing. Prayers continue for your ongoing health. No guarantees in this life, that’s for sure,
teepee
October 9, 2014 at 4:44 pmHave read your blog for several years and enjoyed it every article. Thank you for being transparent with your emotions. I am a vegan for health reasons and would never “go back” to eating animal anything. Looking forward to your new recipes and return of great health for you.
Nava Atlas
October 9, 2014 at 4:48 pmOh Susan, it is beyond flattering that you mentioned my name. I wish I could have done/wish I could do more for you. We all have a burden to carry through life, and plenty of scary moments; it says a lot when you can do so with your kind of grace and thoughtfulness. My continued good wishes for your health and well-being!
Ivanka
October 9, 2014 at 4:48 pmThank you so much for being so brave and strong, and keeping this blog up and running during times of personal struggle. You are an amazing woman and I look forward to many wonderful recipes to come!
Peggy
October 9, 2014 at 4:48 pmThank you for sharing your very personal and very brave story.
I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs!
Karen
October 9, 2014 at 4:51 pmSusan,
You are an amazing person with an amazing life. I’m so glad you shared your story and wish you continued good health in the future. Life to me is all about the journey and how that journey changes us. I’m glad you’ve got such a supportive family, friends and church community to help you.
I’ve only recently changed my eating habits after a medical crisis hit me over the head and I woke up to the true nature of the SAD. But blogs like yours have made this journey much easier for me and I’m sure you’ve had a positive impact on most of your blog followers.
Live your life the best way you know how. Make the best choices with what you know. Seek help when you need it. Protect yourself from harm (by not sharing too much too soon). You’ve done all of that in spades. The future looks bright but it’s always unknown.
Take care!
Wendy
October 9, 2014 at 4:56 pmSusan,
You are an inspiration in every way possible. I’m so glad that you shared your journey with us. May you continue on this journey to health in every way possible. And if you ever come back to Oberlin OH and don’t let me have you and your family over for dinner, I’m going to go berserk!!!!!!
Xoxoxo,
Wendy
Susan Voisin
October 9, 2014 at 5:59 pmWendy, I didn’t know you were in or near Oberlin! We were sort of stuck there during the blizzard last March, and it would have been nice to have gotten to meet you. Love the college and hope we’ll be back. Next time!
Allyson
October 9, 2014 at 4:57 pmI’m so sorry to hear about your illness! I was diagnosed with cancer at age 31 and I also had surgery and 7 weeks of radiation, so I know how “un-fun” it is! But it sounds like you have made it through with a positive attitude, which is all any of us can really control. I’ve also had many “vegan with cancer” conversations with people (although I didn’t make the transition to plant based until after my diagnosis – thanks to the forks over knives documentary on netflix that I watched while recovering from my surgery!) and I think your friend Maria has the right idea. I don’t know if you’ve already seen it but Dr. McDougall actually gave a lecture on this specific topic – he used Steve Jobs as his example. The talk is posted on Dr. McDougall’s website at https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/videos/free-electures/why-did-steve-jobs-die/. I’m so proud of you for getting through this with such grace and thank you for creating such a great resource for other plant based folks!
Eileen
October 9, 2014 at 4:58 pmSusan, thanks for sharing. So sorry you have had to go through this. I truly believe that the way we eat has a huge impact. Nothing in this life is a 100% given! as much as we would all like to believe, so I believe your eating habits have helped you totally! Hugs sent your way. You are so loved!!!!
Phyllis Towns
October 9, 2014 at 4:59 pmThank you so much for sharing your story! I think we all fight that mindset that diet is the answer to ALL of our health issues. Many forget that our planet is so very polluted inside & out. We all just do our best to control what we can & then leave the rest in the hands of whatever higher power we believe in. I applaud you for sharing your story as you don’t know how many others you have helped who are also walking that path & wondering what they did wrong! Your story is the reality.
I’m sure many prayers are being said for you & your family.
Lisa
October 9, 2014 at 5:01 pmSusan, thank you so very much for sharing! What an inspiration you are! I think I would have gone through the same thought process as you, especially with the choice of going through chemo. So many tough decisions you have faced and have had to make in such short of time. I am so happy that you are doing well now and are back to writing your blog. Many, many blessings to you. I’m sending many positive thoughts your way! If you can handle this, you’ve got your child’s Senior year in the bag!
paula rothman MD
October 9, 2014 at 5:03 pmread bernie siegel.. everysingle one! all of them! awesome! and yay for you. amazing journey. thanks for sharing
Matt D
October 9, 2014 at 5:04 pmThank you for sharing. Never doubt what you know is right for you. Never let anyone, inside or out your scope of diet, influence your decisions. Only you know what is right for you and your body. The hell with everyone else. Keep on keepin’ on.
Sandra
October 9, 2014 at 5:05 pmI loved this blog. You are such a wonderful person. Thank you for sharing.
Mary
October 9, 2014 at 5:05 pmWell Susan thank you for sharing, even though it made me sad to here of what you had to go through, plus the fact it happened to a vegan! I’ve been researching the Gerson Therapy, it says to juice allot etc and then when the liver gets toxic you need to do these organic coffee enemas to keep it healthy. Have you listened to Charlotte Gerson on Utube? She is the daughter to the dr who healed so many of cancer this way. Something in the boiled coffee cooled and used for enema open up the ducks in your liver and toxic build-up escape. Really interesting to listen to her!
Anyway, so happy you are ok!!! 🙂 Love your recipes! 🙂
Diane
October 9, 2014 at 5:05 pmSo sorry you have had to go through this, Susan!!!! I am an ovarian cancer survivor of 6 years…..I was vegetarian, but not vegan….leaning more that way everyday. Going into the chemo process healthy…other than the cancer, of course, made it all less horrible. I was never sick form it, just tired and oh, yeah, bald….just hair. Stay positive. I am so glad that you have done well. Take care, Sister-Girlfriend!!!!!! Sending hugs and prayers…..
Frances
October 9, 2014 at 5:06 pmGod Bless you in this. Please do not let anyone criticize you, or make you second- guess your decisions. Each person must walk their own path, and choose their way in life and all that it brings you. I eat a very healthy, very low fat, non-standard American diet, am at a healthy weight, and yet I struggle with high cholesterol which my doctor is finally acknowledging is probably hereditary. I cannot tolerate the usual medications, and am looking at diet and exercise to help. High cholesterol is no where near as bad as cancer, but just as with cancer there is no “one size fits all” answer, and all of us must find our own way. Take care. My thoughts and prayers are with you and yours
Margarita
October 9, 2014 at 5:08 pmI’m just glad you are cancer free now, and I’m one to believe that your healthy lifestyle helped immensely with your recovery. You took a hit, but it could have been much worse. We’re all living in an asteroid belt. Take a deep breath, be grateful and just keep on keeping on! Oh, and thanks for all these years of stories and recipes. You’ve changed a lot of us for the better. Much continuned good health and love.